From Julia. GK August 31, 2007

  I think those a few who chose to leave the cave and see the higher reality is representing their wish, their hope that they want to see more from their life. Not just sitting inside of the cave to see things happening around themselves. And they are free from the limit of the getting knowledge.

  There should have distinction between those who want know more about truths and people who just satisfied to see the shadows as the reality. I think the distinction is very important, because the higher educator that is the few who wants to see more reality.

plato’s false prison August 31, 2007

I believe that the people who acctually leave the cave can possibly represent those that seek a higher education. While those that stay in the cave do not see the true light, it is still all they know. furthermore those that leave the cave are opened to the light and they can see so much more and “know.” The shadows as a reality represnt plain and simple smart and not smart people. The smarter ones leave the cave and are open to the light and start seeing things way more clearly. This distinction is important because if one did not leave the cave then they would all have the same reality and they would all be the same voiceless drones that didnt know.

Leaving the Cave August 31, 2007

Those who leave the cave long for something more. They do not know what it is exactly but they are all drawn towards the knowledge of the sun. Yet, perhaps it is not the individual who forces their way out of the cave, perhaps it is the knowledge itself that pulls the individual into the higher reality. Those who posses an open mind would have no choice but to explore the possibilities of the real world.

This means that only those with an open mind would be shown the truth by knowledge. People who believe solely on the shadows cannot, or will not, ever see the higher reality.

Plato and his silly cave story. August 31, 2007

A. This question bothers me because reading the other posts makes me feel that I need to answer this in a specific way. I’d rather stem away from the knowledge seeking and the ignorant, and go with something more my own. The people in Plato’s story are not really important in themselves, none given names or description, but what they symbolize seems to be what makes this a popular story with those that educate the youth. I think that the people that leave the cave choose to because they aren’t content. They leave because they can. They do not leave with the intention to find anything, the story says nothing of them looking for something. The people that left the cave discovered things for themselves that they couldn’t fathom in cave. To answer question A) I would say that the people that leave are those that aren’t searching for wisdom, but rather the ones that are effected by surroundings and their own choices. They may happen upon knowledge from these encounters, but only because they allow themselves to learn (You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink). Those that stay in the cave aren’t “ignorant;” rather they are those that are content with what they experience everyday. This does not mean that I myself believe the content people are correct in their decisions (I mean COME ON! they are chained to the hard stone wall watching the same shadow puppet shows over and over), but I do not believe that gives us reason to cut them down so much. What if we loved watching puppet shows more than anything in the world? (Maybe they weren’t burning just firewood in that fire either. *inhales deeply and winks*) This distinction between the two “types” of people in this story is important in relation to Plato because it really shows his arrogant thoughts to those that just live life without the intention of broadening ones knowledge or the divine crusading mentality to teach those or lesser intellect (they say knowledge is power, Socrates must of thought himself a superhero). I wonder if they ever stopped to appreciate a sunset or enjoyed the warmth of another human being without belittling their intelligence.

How do you see the world? August 31, 2007

A person who goes back into the cave would be considered an “outkast” by his fellow cave mates, but being outside of the cave he would have experienced many thing different. Such as seeing a cube instead of a square on the wall.

This distinction is important because it would have given him a better perspective to go back into the cave and attempt to get everyone to leave and see things the way he did more clearly<more real/ he would have been better equipped to lead the people out of the cave.

Plato “Allegory of the Cave” August 30, 2007

The people who leave the cave represent truth and knowledge. They are not stuck in a world of false reality and they are far better off. People who leave the cave follow Plato’s style of education, being self-taught and challenging different ideas. The people who stay in the cave continue to live by nothing, but their false sense of security. They refuse to learn anything new and are content with who they are even if they know there is more out there. The distinction between the two is very important when it comes to Plato. Plato believed that to further your knowledge you actually strive to learn new things. Therefore, the people who left the cave are Plato’s ideal students. They sought out to find the true light instead of staying in the cave. They know the true reality, not the misconception.

enlightened August 30, 2007

 A) The people who leave the cave are the “enlightened” where as the people who stay in the cave are “unenlightened.” The people who venture out become intelligent and experienced with society allowing them to become more privileged and wealthier. This distinction is important because it shows how the ignorant will always be in the dark while the people in the light will always be more educated. The people who choose not to attend school may never be as knowledgeable as the ones who broaden their horizons.

From Jon August 30, 2007

in relation to those who find the higher reality in the cave, they represent the
curious  element in humanity. they are the people who question their
surroundings. and ultimately advance beyond the people who accept what they see
and simply go along with it. you might go as far as to say that the ones who
chose to question their environment are the nonconformists and furthermore
because they have chosen to use innovation to get out of the false reality they
may then be able to carry that innovation into their new reality and create new
ideas and inventions. in conclusion the people who use innovation to overcome
their surroundings are more likely to carry those skills into their new reality
and thus benefit the people of this new reality. we need people who question
what they see and don’t simply go along for the ride.

Those who think outside the box August 30, 2007

A.)  First of all, everyone starts out in the cave.  The cave and what it represents, such the ideas conceived inside are all that anyone knows at this time.  The only people who know anything different are those who are searching for something more.  Those who see the light and know that something is out there, they just do not know what.  And at first, reaching that light is hard, it’s like nothing they have ever known and for once they have to do something against their society and explore what they have been yearning to know.  These people represent the advancement and knowledge of everything.  Everything that we know today started with those people who stepped out and then brought back what they found to those who couldn’t find it in themselves to break away.

This distinction is  important to Plato because he wanted to think like Socrates and embrace his ideas which are represented by those who leave the cave.  Plato uses a lot of symbolism in his stories and these people who go out are the epitome of the qualities that allow for us live a fulfilled life full of good value and knowledge.

Plato “allegory of the cave” August 30, 2007

Personally i felt that Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave” was a short story ment to explain the corruptness in politics. Obviously the story was an allegory with a meaning of education, because over half the story is mearly about education, knowledge and wisdom. But towards the end of the story Plato begins to talk more about politics and describes a slightly currupt compared to a slightly perfect republic. I feel that he is trying to relate education to politics; and his message is not only for polititians and those that are wise to help those that are younger and not as knowledgable, but also for them to continue to persue more wisdom and more knowledge so that their good intentions in politics do not turn to evil. I feel that the passage was written to the wise men and polititions trying to get the message that if they were to continue their education they would stay on the right path and not become selfish by using politics for personal gain, but they would use politics more so for the good of all the people.

basicly thats kinda what i got from the book, open for any critisism and advice

From Christian August 30, 2007

the people who leave the cave represent people who are taught truth. they are the ones who know the truth about reality and by knowing this are better off.  these people are the ones who are most suited to rule a state.

this distinction is important because the people who have seen the light better understand reality. they must go back down to the uneducated men and help rule. they are self-taught, which means they will seek a just and fair state rather than doing it only for personal gain. 

From Anne August 30, 2007

I think the people who leave the cave want to know, what the purpose and the intent of things are. Therefore they are willing to ascent and get to know a complete different world. On the other hand there are the “normal” people, who want to live life in the way they are knowing it.

Therefore I reckon that the men who leave the cave are a minority and represent philosophers and/or educated people. The others are just the population who is satisfied with what they got.  Thats why Sokrates is assuming that these philosophers have the duty to come back and l guide the others.

Plato August 30, 2007

 People who leave the cave represent the people who notice the entire body of reality. Because they accept the reality, they don’t escape from the fact which the don’t want to face. They accept it regardless of bad or good.

  In general, children do not accept the reality which they dont’t want like the people who see the shadow as reality. For example, they tend to leave the  food which they don’t like. For those children reality is the image which is convenient for them. If the children  keep on growing up without accepting the reality, it could be bad because they escape from the fact which they don’t like, but their parents are getting old and can’t help their children as their children start to be old. So they have to do everything by themselves.

  Eventually children need to be adult to accept the reality like the people who leave the cave and see the  higher reality. That’s why the distinction is important .

Plato “Allegory of the Cave” August 30, 2007

People who accept shadows as a reality, are those who don’t leave the cave.  It’s almost like they get stuck in one place.  They have the same daily routine, and just accept it for what it is.  They never dig deeper or strive for something better.  They settle for what is comfortable to them and easy.  The shadows and never leaving the cave represent something hidden or unknown.  Therefore, those who leave the cave are the ones who go out and search for the light that is creating the shadows.  They are the ones who succeed and strive to learn more.  The distinction is important because it separates those who want to know more from those who are comfortable with what they already know.

The Lucky Few August 30, 2007

I think the people that leave the cave  represent the people in real life who are unsatisfied with where they are at intellectualy in the univers.  They want to know more, they want to ask more questions and know more truths.  These people can not be content they need to reach the sumit of human potential.  When they get to this place then that is when Plato says they have reached true education.  I think there has to be a distinction between the people who are content and question nothing, and the people who question everything and try to keep climbing.  The people that leave the cave then have an obligation to come back and help more people leave the cave and become truly educated.

Plato and Sensible People August 30, 2007

In my opinion, the people that are able to leave “the cave” and reach a higher reality are wise, sensible philosophers and gurus.  To Plato, this distinction is important because compare to regular people, enlightened people do not pursue earthly goods or power.  Plato states, “Whereas the truth is that the State in which the rulers are most reluctant to govern is always the best and most quietly governed, and the State in which they are the most eager, the worst.”  I believe the reluctant rulers can teach us the most.  That is why Plato made this distinction, and hopefully we will listen to his advice.

Leaving The Cave… August 30, 2007

Answer to question A) 

The people that perhaps “leave” the cave are the ones who have gained knowledge that allows them to see a higher reality, instead of accepting the shadows as reality. Plato wanted that people gain knowledge not from the teacher student relationship, but through their own discovery. And so even as Plato explains to Glaucon his theories in a teacher/pupil fashion, he is also trying to get Glaucon to see that to realize a higher reality he must discover it on his own and not be told by someone.

-Cam

I have seen the light August 30, 2007

“if ignorance was bliss, everyone would be doing it.”

but here is not the case, or the cave for that matter…….

Socrates is basically telling Glaucon that everone starts out in a cave. here they are only knowing a few small things, most of them not giving darkness muchthought. now some being released to the sun, or knowledge in this case are blinded. such as they are happy in their own little world. ignorance is bliss. but others see the light. “enlightened” with the new knowledge. those that refuse the sun are like closed minded people who think only one way. open minded people give way to more understanding such as those out of the cave and in the “light.”

 You’re either on one side or the other. Us college students are out of the cave and in this blinding light. i mean, dont we all get irritated by learning? grasping unkown concepts? in our life, people in the cave are those who do not seek education such as after highschool. those who believe they’ve learned everything they can and decide thats all they really need.

 did you see the light too?

education August 30, 2007

The few who leave the cave represent the enlightened.  They are the few who seek wisdom and intellect.  Plato refers to them as the liberated, insinuating that they are free.  They are free from the bondage of ignorance.

This distinction is important because it attests to who we are.  We can either be cave dwellers who accept faint shadows as our realities or we can liberate ourselves and live in the light.  The distinction is important to Plato for two reasons that I see.  First, because he teaches his pupils to be the latter.  It is also important for Plato to relay this message because it was the cave dwellers who assassinated his friend and mentor.

Heirachy August 30, 2007

A. The people that leave the cave in my mind are the future leaders of the state. All though many people mention ignorance as the main reason for people being trapped in the cave, I like to focus on the fact that these people are chained down and can’t turn there heads. They are prisioners. On page 452, it talks a little bit about power and governing the state “he held the citizens together by persuasion and necessity, making them benefactors of one another; to this end he created them, not to please themselves, but to be his instruments in binding up the state.” This quotation tells me that the cave really symbalizes the governing of the state. The people in power, the self exploring wise people need there prisioners of the cave, that lack knowledge to keep there power. They need to keep there power and the state needs to have men in power to run properly therefore, the prisioners are benafactors of the state. This cave seems to keep a societal heirachy that allows for the state to run properly. This is an important message that applys to our society today. We need a heirachy in class, without this heirachy there are gaps in our everyday life and the world doesn’t function properly.

What I think August 29, 2007

The allegory of the cave is a story about the human race captured and held prisoners in this cave. The catch is that these people don’t really know that they are captured. These humans are chained to walls and they see this “Puppet show” and take that as the “real” world. One man questions this and with the help of a prisoner who is already free is released to the upper world so that he too could be free.

When you grow up in a world of shadows, and that’s all you see, that is your reality. You just take the world for granted, you accept anything someone tells you as the truth. The people who stay in the cave and continue to accept the “puppet show” as a reality are basically those who refuse to accept the truth, or those who don’t want to seek a higher knowledge. Galucon on the other hand is someone who questions the truth, and meet Socrates and he lets him free. Galucon is seeking a higher education, and is taught by Socrates. When he leaves the cave to see the world, he pities the other people in the cave for they don’t know the things that he knows. Whereas on the other hand they say that he is foolish for leaving the safety of the cave thus proving their ignorance.

~Ridge

Socrates A Good Teaching Model?? August 29, 2007

        Socrates is a good model for teaching because he helps his pupils by getting them to find the anwsers on their own. This method gets the students to think for themselves. For one to improve their education, they must learn it on their own with a little bit of guidence. High school just feeds you the information hoping that something will stick in your brain. Unlike high school, universities today use a similar method to educate the students.

        There is nothing potentially unethical about Socrates’ approach to educating his students. Its not like Socrates was brain washing the students to help him take over the world. Socrates gets the student to start questioning things. By getting the pupil to question, the pupil’s brain starts to think on its own. If getting people to start using their brains is unethical than reading a good book is unethical.

From Miles August 29, 2007

I really didn’t like the way that Socrates taught.  I guess that in the end of the story, Glaucon does seem to understand what Socrates was saying, but I just don’t see how.  I know if I had him as a teacher, I’d be bored out of my mind, and would never understand the guy.  He just kept telling Glaucon to imagine this and suppose that.  All Glaucon had to do was say, “Certainly” or “That is certain” or “Very true.”  I can just imagine some old guy lecturing to a guy who’s pretending to listen to everything he has to say but is really just daydreaming.  This was, however, in a different time, so Socrates’ practices may have been common and a good method to learn from.

From Marie Kennedy August 29, 2007

A. The kinds of people who leave the cave represent those who want more out of life, either spiritually, intellectually or education wise. For instance, some people choose to leave the “cave” or ignorance behind and go out into the world and see the good and the bad that it has to offer. The people who don’t leave the cave represent those of ignorance who see shadows which represent a false reality and never really educate themselves. This distinction is important because there are two different kinds of people in the world, those who choose to become something more by educating themselves and having others educate them, and those who stay behind in the cave, or a world of ignorance, and remain ignorant for the rest of their lives. Without this distinction we would not know what kind of people we were. It is important to know how you fit in. Do you stay in the cave and look at life as if it were all bliss and beauty, or do you leave and become more, and realize that with suffering and pain comes new ideas and and progress.

Posting 1 – Plato – Due before class Fri 8/31 August 25, 2007

ANSWER either A) or B) in your Post

 A)  According to the “Allegory of the Cave,” most people have accepted shadows as reality, but a few leave “the cave” and see the highter reality. What kinds of people do those who leave represent?  Why do you think this distinction is important (in general or to Plato specifically)?

B)  Evaluate Socrates as a teacher, focusing on the way that he leads Glaucon to discover certain truths about nature and reality. How is Socrates a good model for teaching others? Is anything in his approach potentially unethical?

Postings info August 24, 2007

Here is where you will submit posts as assigned throughout the semester, approximately one per week.  This postings page is an arena where students should be able to dialogue, respond to course readings, and organically generate ideas.  I expect posts to maintain the same level of respect and professionalism as is required for class.  To earn credit for your post, make sure it fulfills the following: 

• Posts should be academically thoughtful and constructive, remaining on topic and answering the posted prompt;
• My expectation is that student posts will range in length from 6-10 sentences (two paragraphs).

Make your brilliance a public affair, and don’t forget to read your classmates’ posts.  You are expected to check this site regularly.  We may bring ideas from this page up in class and vice versa, so be prepared.